S22:E2 - Building the bridge across the tech gap (Michelle Glauser)

Joining Saron today is Michelle Glauser, CEO & Founder of Techtonica. Ever since joining the industry as a software engineer, Michelle recognized the glaring lack of diversity within the world of tech, which is why she's dedicated herself to addressing this issue. Techtonica is a nonprofit that provides tuition-free tech training with laptops, living stipends, and job placement or search support to women and non-binary adults with low incomes. Michelle shares insights she's gained through her coding journey and advice for those looking to start their path today. Show Links Partner with Dev & CodeNewbie! (sponsor) Women Who Code freeCodeCamp Feedback Framework I Look Like An Engineer Class Straddling Tech Gap Python JavaScript Hackbright

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[00:00:06] SY: Welcome to the CodeNewbie Podcast where we talk to people on their coding journey in hopes of helping you on yours. I’m your host, Saron, and today we’re talking about the tech gap and ways we can improve it with Michelle Glauser, Founder of Techtonica.

[00:00:20] MG: I immediately upon becoming a software engineer realized there was a huge lack of diversity, and I was seeing that diversity around me every day in the Bay Area and didn’t think it was fair that somehow people weren’t able to reflect the diversity of the local people within their software engineering teams.

[00:00:43] SY: Michelle talks about her coding journey and how she went from a bachelor’s degree in English to a bootcamp that helped her break into the tech world. She talks about her experience at Hackbright Academy and what led to her starting her non-profit, Techtonica, after this.

[MUSIC BREAK]

[00:01:06] SY: Thank you so much for being here.

[00:01:07] MG: Thanks for having me.

[00:01:08] SY: So I’d love to start off by learning about your coding journey. What inspired you to get into tech?

[00:01:13] MG: Yeah. After I did my master’s in digital humanities, I thought about doing a PhD, but I didn’t get into the program I wanted, and then I kind of was already thinking that I wanted to do something more on the business side. So I applied and was hired at this startup in San Francisco and pretty much did everything except for coding. And I kept looking at the software engineers and just saying, “What they do is so cool and they make so much more money than I do. How do I do that?” And it just happened to be the year that coding bootcamp started and I was googling around and found them. So I applied and got into Hackbright in San Francisco.

[00:01:57] SY: Very cool. So my understanding is that at the time, I think it was only just two bootcamps that were available to enroll in. What made you pick Hackbright out of the two options? What got you interested in their program?

[00:02:10] MG: You know, the other one was co-ed and I just really liked the idea of being able to learn with other women and it felt less intimidating to me, I think. I believe it was cheaper too. I can’t quite remember now.

[00:02:28] SY: Yeah. Okay. That’s totally fair. So what about your experience at Hackbright did you enjoy the most?

[00:02:33] MG: You know, I think software engineering was so much more creative than I thought it was going to be.

[00:02:40] SY: Ah, yeah.

[00:02:40] MG: It kind of opened up this world of thinking about how to solve different problems using code, and I just loved the different people in my cohort getting to know them and work with them and have their different perspectives when we paired. It was great. Honestly, I loved learning all of that, and within a couple of weeks of graduating, I had gotten a job offer and negotiated for like 30% more than they offered.

[00:03:11] SY: Oh!

[00:03:12] MG: So it was so empowering and amazing that my life clues in like three months.

[00:03:14] SY: Go, Michelle! Tell me more about that. What was your experience like finding a job, going through the interview process? What was that all about?

[00:03:23] MG: Yeah. So Hackbright kind of brought in different companies to talk to us, and I started going to interviews at those different companies. Oh, and that’s another thing that was cool, like everyone else in the cohort was interviewing there too. It could have been competitive and terrible, but it was really supportive. We really supported each other and cheered when someone got one of the roles. So I ended up being hired by Get Satisfaction, which was one of the companies that showed up. And yeah, it was so cool to have my first taste of what it was like in software engineering.

[00:03:59] SY: How did it feel like to go through the interview process? What steps were involved? What was that like for you?

[00:04:05] MG: Yeah. I remember that Hackbright had said, “You know, they might be asking about data structures and algorithms, so study up on that.” And they basically just, through that coding interview, looked at us, which was really overwhelming because we were learning Python and I think all of the examples in there were Java and just felt really like a totally different language, which they were. It was overwhelming. And so I was really nervous and felt like, “What if they asked me this stuff and I have no idea what I’m doing? What if they want me to code in Java?” Yeah. They were like, “Use whatever language you’re comfortable with,” and they threw a couple of questions at me. “How would you code this?” I believe there was one that a game, like Tic-Tac-Toe or something, and I talked it out while I was writing on the whiteboard and then eventually came up with some code that would make that game.

[00:05:02] SY: Very cool. So you started working in tech, but not as a programmer. How did your perspective change about the tech industry once you actually became a programmer?

[00:05:13] MG: Honestly, I feel like there’s kind of some bias in tech around the roles, right? So it felt like, “Oh, you’re like really part of tech now.” Like I wasn’t completely part of tech before and like I wasn’t on the end. I didn’t know all the cool things other people know. And it sounds kind of silly now, but I did see a tweet the other day that said, “Will you still like me if I get a technical writing role or something?” And I was like, “There really is this feeling of like the best people in tech are software engineers.” I don’t think that’s a good thing, but it definitely is something I’ve noticed.

[00:05:59] SY: And once you became one of the “the best people”, did that change the way you thought about those best people? Did that change the way that you thought about the tech industry as a whole?

[00:06:12] MG: No. I like to talk to Techtonica’s participants a lot about class straddling. And I feel like the tricky thing about moving from a blue-collar upbringing to this world of tech that is so privileged is that you are empowered by it, but you also feel some resentment almost because before when you saw all of the wealth and privilege that people in tech had, or when I did anyway, it felt like it wasn’t fair and that I had some dislike for people who were in tech. But then to be there myself, I had to kind of work through that, like, “How do I feel about myself now that I’m one of those people?” Like, “Am I a sellout? How do I manage that?” So I guess in a lot of ways I felt like, “Wow, this is special because it is a different world that opens up to you through software,” but also there are trade-offs, right?

[00:07:22] SY: Absolutely.

[MUSIC BREAK]

[00:07:44] SY: So the phrase “tech gap” is a very big phrase in your world and the work that you do and the company that you’ve built. What does that phrase mean?

[00:07:54] MG: Well, to me it means that there are a lot of people whose perspectives we are missing in tech, and we’re not extending the privilege of tech to those people. And oftentimes, we’re not recognizing that there are quite a few barriers that get in the way of people being able to join tech.

[00:08:15] SY: And how did you respond to that? Because you were responsible for an ad campaign that I remember from a few years ago called “I Look Like an Engineer”. Is that right?

[00:08:26] MG: Yes, that’s right.

[00:08:27] SY: Tell me about that.

[00:08:29] MG: Yeah, basically there was a software engineer in San Francisco who was in some recruiting ads for her company. She got these responses of people saying, “Clearly, she’s too beautiful to be a software engineer. She’s not a software engineer.”-[00:08:46] SY: Are we all meant to be ugly and hideous? I don’t understand.

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