S22:E9 - Coding Bootcamps & Coding Journeys (Mark Thompson)

Happy New Year! In this final episode of Season 22, Saron speaks with Mark Thompson, Senior Developer Relations Engineer at Google. Mark loves to teach and code. He is an award-winning university instructor and engineer with a passion for creating meaningful learning experiences. Listen as they discuss Mark's interest in code, coding bootcamps and how to manage your career. Show Links Partner with Dev & CodeNewbie! (sponsor) Svelte Vue React Angular

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[00:00:05] SY: Welcome to the CodeNewbie Podcast where we talk to people on their coding journey in hopes of helping you on yours. I’m your host, Saron, and today we’re talking about coding bootcamps and coding journeys with Mark Thompson, Senior Developer Relations Engineer at Google.

[00:00:21] MT: They have a budget, they want to get a deal, but you are not there to be their deal. They come back with an offer and I still reject it, and I asked them to come back with a better number. The reason I’m so confident about the offer and the salary stuff is because I know people are making this type of money. And I’m not a person who’s like, “Oh, everybody got to make six figures on your first job.” That’s not what I’m saying at all. I’m just saying that people are out here getting paid, so why shouldn’t you get paid?

[00:00:45] SY: Mark talks about his tech journey, his thoughts on coding bootcamps, and how those thoughts have changed over time after this.

[MUSIC BREAK]

[00:01:00] SY: Thank you so much for being here.

[00:01:01] MT: Thank you for having me. I am super pumped up to be here and like genuinely I am a little star-struck to meet you. So let’s go.

[00:01:08] SY: Thank you. That’s very nice of you to say. So let’s dig into where it all started for you. What first got you interested in code?

[00:01:16] MT: So when I was a kid, I loved, loved video games, and I mean like a little kid, right? So in the early days of Nintendo and Sega in the ’80s. And so when I got into the ’90s, I learned what computers were. I was thinking like, “Wow, I would love to make my own video game.” So that is what really sparked my idea to code because I wanted my computer at the time to like ask me questions and let me choose which game to play, but like through automated system like you might see in the movies. And that pursuit is what got me started.

[00:01:43] SY: Very cool. So you were in high school. I remember you had a programming course with a teacher that wouldn’t give up on you. Tell me about that teacher. Tell me about that programming course.

[00:01:54] MT: Oh, listen, this is so amazing. So first off, shout out to Janice Ginzler, if you are still teaching or if you’re retired. You’re probably retired by now. That was a long time ago when I was in high school. But let me tell you the story.

[00:02:04] SY: Yes.

[00:02:04] MT: So when I got to high school, I didn’t start off as strong as I probably should have of maybe getting influenced by like friends and like my older brothers and cousins. And so I wasn’t taking school as seriously as I should have, even though I wanted to code. But for some reason, I just was like, “Yeah, I’m not going to give my best effort. And this teacher just saw in me that I could do better than I was doing. And she’s like, “The way you’re going right now, you’re not going to pass my class or you can come after school and do these extra credit assignments.” And so I did, because I couldn’t go home with like an F or a D. So I said, “Okay, I’m just going to go after school.” And then I would go every single day. And she had this QBasic programming book that had extra exercises. And I went so much, Saron. I went so much that by the end I had done all of the exercises and my grade was over a hundred percent because I had gotten so much extra credit.

[00:03:00] SY: Oh my goodness!

[00:03:01] MT: And she was right to bet on me to like say, “Yeah, Mark, you can do better.” And I did.

[00:03:05] SY: Wow! So tell me how you felt about coding at that point. Did you fall in love with it right away? Was it a slow burn? What was that like for you?

[00:03:16] MT: Oh, I was locked in right in that time. As soon as I figured out how to start doing the things that I wanted to do, I was locked in and it became something that I would do for fun and it just became a big part of my life.

[00:03:26] SY: So you fell in love with it. You went to not just undergrad, but also graduate school for computer science. Why did you choose that route, particularly the graduate school? I think most people kind of stop at undergrad and get a job and then work their way up, but you did the grad school thing. Why did you do that?

[00:03:40] MT: Okay. So you got to know when I went to grad school, and that gives a lot of context. So I started graduate school in 2003. So almost 20 years ago. So there were lots and lots of stories about the market and the .COM crash had already happened. So the job market for engineers, it was kind of shaky at the time. And people were telling us like, “You might not get a job.” And I was like, “Well, one way to protect myself is to go to grad school because at least I’ll have something to do for a few more years. And then at least when I come out of grad school, I’ll have more skills and maybe more job prospects.” So for me, it was more calculated like, “Okay, let me just make sure that I’m the most attractive employee that I could be.”-[00:04:21] SY: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. Your career trajectory is very, very fascinating. You’ve done a lot of stuff. You’ve worked your way up at various companies, from implementation specialists to programmer, software engineer, senior software engineer, lead engineer, director of instructional quality, and then your current role as senior developer relations engineer at Google. So we won’t go through each step of the way, but what has been the biggest thing that you’ve learned throughout your career trajectory?

[00:04:47] MT: The biggest thing that I’ve learned throughout my career trajectory is to manage my own career and not wait for people to do it for me.

[00:04:55] SY: I love that. Can you tell me a moment where that really happened for you?

[00:04:59] MT: Absolutely. So one thing about me, I love to talk, I love to communicate. And so I had a job as a program kind of support engineer, even though it was called Programmer Level 1 or 2. But what they had me do was write software patches for these mobile… they weren’t mobile applications in terms of phones, they were mobile as in people took their laptops from home to home collecting interviews. Right? So they were out in the field. So the software ran on the laptop and sometimes the app would crash while they’re trying to collect the data from a respondent. Now here’s the problem with that. If someone’s trying to get data from you, you usually are like, “No, I don’t want to do the interview. No, thank you.” And then if you finally get in, it’s like really high stakes that I got to collect as much data as I can during that time. So what would happen is sometimes we get phone calls like, “Hey, the application’s crashing.” I’m at this respondent’s home. It took me three months to get them to agree to this interview. What can we do? So I would get the logs and then I would write software to patch up whatever that thing was. Now the problem was I was really good at calming down the tech workers who were out in the field, the interviewers, because I just get on the phone and say, “Okay, tell me what’s happening. Okay, I get it. I understand exactly what’s happening to you. I’m so sorry this is happening. If you do this, then I can do this and we can get you what you need. I’m on your side.” And I do all that stuff genuinely because I knew it was important for them. And so they loved me to do that. And what happened was I got pigeonholed in that slot of being the support engineer and I couldn’t get out of that role. So every time a promotion would come up, they say, “But you’re too valuable on the phone.”-[00:06:32] SY: Oh! Interesting. What an annoying thing to be good at.

[00:06:36] MT: Right. Right. So I couldn’t get bigger projects and I couldn’t really like move up and I spent maybe three and a half years in that role.

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