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SE Radio 571: Jeroen Mulder on Multi-Cloud Governance
Jeroen Mulder, author of Multi-Cloud Strategy for Cloud Architects, joins host Robert Blumen for a discussion of public cloud, private cloud, and multi-cloud computing architectures and trends. They start by considering what defines cloud computing and what differentiates the major cloud providers, including whether they are more alike or different in the services they offer. Jeroen discusses governance, regulatory compliance, and data locality as drivers of where enterprises want to run their workload. They explore use cases for multi-cloud, and discuss architectural challenges in migrating to kubernetes, as well as issues with networking, security, and identity management with multi-cloud architectures. Finally, they discuss running public cloud compute on on-prem resources with Anthos, Outback, and related technologies.
Jeroen Mulder, author of Multi-Cloud Strategy for Cloud Architects, joins host Robert Blumen for a discussion of public cloud, private cloud, and multi-cloud computing architectures and trends. They start by considering what defines cloud computing and what differentiates the major cloud providers, including whether they are more alike or different in the services they offer. Jeroen discusses governance, regulatory compliance, and data locality as drivers of where enterprises want to run their workload. They explore use cases for multi-cloud, and discuss architectural challenges in migrating to kubernetes, as well as issues with networking, security, and identity management with multi-cloud architectures. Finally, they discuss running public cloud compute on on-prem resources with Anthos, Outback, and related technologies.
Show Notes
- Multi-Cloud Strategy for Cloud Architects by Jeroen Mulder (second edition)
- Multi-Cloud Architecture and Governance by Jeroen Mulder (first edition, which was discussed in the episode)
- Transforming Health Care with DevOps by Jeroen Mulder
- Modern Enterprise Architecture: Using DevSecOps and Cloud-Native in Large Enterprises by Jeroen Mulder
Transcript
Transcript brought to you by IEEE Software magazine.
This transcript was automatically generated. To suggest improvements in the text, please contact [email protected] and include the episode number and URL.
Robert Blumen 00:00:17 For Software Engineering Radio, this is Robert Blumen. I have with me today Jeroen Mulder. He is an enterprise and security architect with over 25 years in IT and cloud technology. He has held a number of roles in IT companies, including Atos and Origin. Until 2021 he was head of applications and multi-cloud services for Fujitsu in the Netherlands. Jeroen is the author of the book Multi-Cloud Architecture and Governance, and we will be discussing a range of topics in the area of multi-cloud and hybrid cloud. Jeroen, welcome to Software Engineering Radio.
Jeroen Mulder 00:00:56 Thank you very much. And compliments for pronouncing my name for being non-Dutch.
Robert Blumen 00:01:00 I do my best.
Jeroen Mulder 00:01:01 .
Robert Blumen 00:01:02 We do have listeners in over a hundred countries, so we are often dealing with people’s names from all over the world. Before we talk about multi-cloud, could you give us a brief overview of Cloud Computing, including the idea of private cloud and public cloud?
Jeroen Mulder** 00:01:23 Yeah, that’s already a good start for a debate. Since what is multi-cloud in my world it’s a mix, hybrid cloud, private cloud, public cloud, et cetera. So what I usually, what I try to do in my books is to give a definition that at least gives something to work with. So multi-cloud would involve at least two clouds, basically. And whether that is a private cloud sitting on VMware or anything in combination with a public cloud, whether that’s going to be Microsoft Azure, AWS, or whatsoever, or that we have a combination of two public clouds, that’s all multi-cloud to me. The real trick in multi-cloud is whether you use it as a multi-cloud, because I can have stuff running in Azure and I can have stuff running in AWS. If these, let’s say these environments are not connected, then I’m just using two separate clouds.**
Jeroen Mulder** 00:02:12 If they are connected as an environment, then I’m going to talk about multi-cloud and that use typically within the enterprise that I work with. So far, we have private cloud stacks sitting in on-premises data centers mostly or in co-locations. And then stretching into public clouds for whatever usage. That can be a disaster recovery solution in public cloud or development being done in public clouds. And after all, because for instance, because of compliancy rules or whatsoever have the production on private clouds. So that’s a little bit of a definition that we use. And having said that, I know that a lot of my colleagues and other experts may have different definitions. There is even an official definition by Gartner, which is all true, basically. I don’t think that that is just one definition. Multi-cloud, basically if you just strip down the word multi-cloud, it’s two clouds as a minimum.**
Jeroen Mulder** 00:03:09 That’s multi. And I’m using at least two clouds, and that can be anything in my world. With hybrid cloud, it’s a little bit different. That’s more specific. That’s private combination with public cloud where the private cloud sits in an on-premises data center. So that’s a start, but it’s already a good start to have a fierce debate on what is it actually. And then if we really want to go down the rabbit hole, it is AWS, it’s Azure, it’s Oracle cloud, it’s Google cloud, it’s everything that comes with it. There’s so much choice for that matter and what you can use. And that’s where the real thing starts. What do I use? What do I want to achieve? Where do I want to use it for? That’s where the real interesting stuff starts as far as I’m concerned.**
Robert Blumen 00:03:53 So you raised a ton of points that we’ll probably spend the rest of the hour discussing. I want to delve a little bit into this idea of private cloud. When cloud computing started, we had public cloud and then we had stuff in people’s on-prem data centers. I wouldn’t have called that private cloud, it’s just how we always did things. So what makes something a private cloud versus a bunch of computers that the enterprise owns?
Jeroen Mulder** 00:04:21 Awfully good question. When I started off in this job, a private cloud was, at first we called it ‘utility computing.’ It was basic. And if you really look at it at its core, the big mainframes where you ran multiple applications or multiple environments on top of, basically that was already the predecessor of a private cloud. A private cloud is a hardware stack. And I’m running multiple applications or databases whatsoever on top of that hardware stack. Is that cloud or is that utility computing? Basically, I’m not running an application. It’s not a one-to-one relationship between the application server. It’s an N-to-one. So I can have different departments, different developer groups, whatsoever running on the same server with applications, et cetera. Okay. So if you want to call that a private cloud, I’m cool with that. That starts with the virtualization of the whole thing.**
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