rss-bridge 2026-02-27T08:40:00+00:00

To live in an AI world, knowing is half the battle

Ryan welcomes Marcus Fontoura, technical fellow at Microsoft and author of Human Agency in the Digital World, to discuss the intersection of technology, society, and human dignity in a digital-first world.

February 27, 2026

To live in an AI world, knowing is half the battle

Credit: Alexandra Francis*

They chat about the non-determinism of social media algorithms, the need for balance between efficiency and human dignity in technology, and the role that trust plays in AI.

Human Agency in the Digital World is an “AI-era self-help book” about reclaiming our role as pilots—not passengers—in the technology revolution. It’s available now on Amazon and everywhere books are sold.

Connect with Marcus on LinkedIn and learn more about his work at his website.

Congrats to user Romain for winning a Populist badge on their answer to Django: show the count of related objects in admin list_display.

TRANSCRIPT

[Intro Music]

Ryan Donovan: Hello everyone, and welcome to the Stack Overflow Podcast, a place to talk all things software and technology. I am Ryan Donovan, your host, and today we are talking about how we can steer technology towards human dignity and not just for efficiency – how understanding technology helps us live in it better. My guest today is Marcus Fontoura, who is a technical fellow at Microsoft and the author of the book 'Human Agency in a Digital World.' Welcome to the show, Marcus.

Marcus Fontoura: Thanks for having me, Ryan. Pleasure to be here.

Ryan Donovan: Before we get into human agency stuff, tell us a little bit about how you got into software and technology.

Marcus Fontoura: When I was a kid, I loved math; so, I thought that I was going to study math and be a math professor; but then when I went to college, I had to take a basic computer science class, and I had done a little bit of programming before, but I really fell in love with programming and computers when I took my first CSO one-on-one class. And then, from there, I switched majors, did computer engineering, which was new at the time, and then this was back in the 90s. And then, I moved on to do a PhD in computer science and moved to the US for working in Big Tech since the early 2000s.

Ryan Donovan: Computer science grew out of the math department. So, in a way, you did go into math, right?

Marcus Fontoura: When I was a kid, I had a computer, but I did a little bit of programming, but I really loved just sitting in my room and solving algebra problems much more than programming. And then, somehow in college, [there was] that switch. Anyway, I do a lot of math today still, because we try to solve hard technical problems, and it's all related, but I'm glad that I made the switch, given how much the field change over the years since I graduated up to now.

Ryan Donovan: Let's talk a little bit about the book and the ideas that you talk about – how to enable human agency within a digital world. So, how can understanding how computers and technology work better, how can that enable people to have more agency in today's world?

Marcus Fontoura: Yeah. The idea came to me because my daughters, they of course, are very curious about AI and technology, and they kept asking me, 'dad, what should I do for college? Does it make sense to study this profession, or that profession?' And then, I realized that at least they have me to guide them a little bit, but for most people, it's hard to understand what's going on. With so much hype about AI, about technology, and so much news, and the news tend to be very polarized; either it's like, 'AI is going to solve all different humanity problems, or AI is going to cause the extinction of humanity.' And of course, I believe the truth lies a lot more in between. I felt that it's hard for people to relate to a technology if they're so distanced to it, right? So, if you completely don't understand how things work, it's really hard for you to feel that you have any sort of agency that you can influence, that you can have educated opinions about it. So, that's the main intuition and motivation that led me to write the book.

Ryan Donovan: Yeah, I remember a former colleague tried to start learning programming, and I remember he ran into a sort of issue and understanding what arrays were, and things that I think listeners of this program would take as a pretty basic data structure. And I like, in the book, that you talk about things in a very sort of generalized, understandable way. How did you get to that approach? How did you [start to] be able to break down the sort of understanding of technology into a way that was like 'Alice and Bob' level?

Marcus Fontoura: That was what I was aiming for. I felt that I needed to convey it almost like a Malcolm Gladwell book, right? In the sense, he– of course he's a much better writer than I'm, like a professional writer. For him, he is able to convey complicated and interesting concepts so that lay people can understand. I think the concept of the tipping point, for instance, is one very important one that he was able to clearly disseminate. So, when I was thinking about the book, that's the frame of reference I had, right? That it doesn't do me any good to try to explain how sorting works, and what efficiency is for computer scientists, because they all know about it. And my main intent was to help educate people that are interested in technology, that care about what's going on in the world, but they are totally capable of understanding these basic concepts about computer science. So, I tired to put myself in their shoes and say, 'how can I explain this if I were not a computer scientist, or to somebody that– to my mother, or a psychologist, or to a lawyer?' That was what I was trying to achieve.

Ryan Donovan: I've had this problem too, and a lot of listeners have had that where talking to my father, or whatever, about computer issues. And it's like, you don't have the sort of fundamental understanding of what this even is. And I think stepping through the algorithms, where you walk through the indexing algorithms, ' here's what happens at this number, [and] what happens at this point,' is very helpful. Have you had to have those difficult conversations with non-technical people before, and how did they change your approach?

Marcus Fontoura: Yeah. One of the things that I think helped me is that I mentor a lot of people as part of my day job at Microsoft, and even before in other companies. And one of the things I love to say to especially new grads that I think what helps the most in people's career, especially on early on, is if they have a clear understanding of what they are working on. So, as part of my mentoring that I do with a lot of recent grads, is just help them have a crisp idea of why the problem that they are working on is important. How does it fit in the overall context of their organization, or the company, or the whole industry? So, I was training myself to say, 'how can I simplify this concept and present it in the most clear possible way?' That's one thing that I always try to do, and I think it really helps people, because I've seen some brilliant people that perhaps [are] doing something brilliant, but then you ask what they're doing, and they'll tell you in very complex way that you can't even understand. And then, that tells me that they really don't understand the context, right? When they cannot really explain to you it's because they really didn't internalize how the things truly work and what are the foundational principles behind those.

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